Over the years, Joe Rogan’s podcast has addressed some larger debates in mixed martial arts through digressions that seem to appear out of the blue. But they tend to stay, capture the attention and imagination of the audience, leaving them with questions to mull over. During a 2022 episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, the host set a precedent for such a digressional debate early on in the conversation.
As they drifted through comic observations of professional and sumo wrestling, Rogan engaged his fellow comedians Shane Gillis, Mark Normand, and Ari Shaffir with a question. “Who’s the f***ing Jon Jones of sumo wrestling?” asked Rogan.
The host was met with support, with one guest echoing the host’s opinion. Rogan and his guests agreed that for the time being, Jones was the benchmark for size and success in the UFC. And his record is difficult to argue with.
At the time of the episode, he was transitioning from light heavyweight to heavyweight. Jones underlined his seriousness by vacating the UFC Light Heavyweight Championship.
He saw a bout with Francis Ngannou as a ticket to heavyweight supremacy and a pay packet to match. Since then, he has secured the UFC Heavyweight Championship and broken the record for most UFC title defenses, with 12. However, for the sake of a healthy debate, Rogan adopted the role of devil’s advocate with his next statement.
“It’s hard to argue,” admitted Rogan, with a furrow of his brow. “It’s Mighty Mouse [Demetrious Johnson]. Mighty Mouse just won the One Championship rematch and got his title back. Mighty Mouse is the f**king man.”
Another guest agreed with Rogan, arguing that Johnson defended his title more often than Jones did. Rogan disagreed once more. However, his support for Jones over Johnson this time around had nothing to do with fighting ability or title defenses.
“Daniel Cormier, [Alexander] Gustafsson… Jon Jones cleaned out his f**king division,” argued Rogan. “But Mighty Mouse was less recognized because he was small.”
Much like Jones and Ngannou, Johnson‘s conflicts with the UFC came down to pay. Ultimately, this was what led to his exit in 2018, completing a trade deal to ONE Championship, with Ben Askren moving the other way.
Did Johnson’s size hamper his UFC legacy?
Johnson was arguably the best fighter in the UFC when he exited. He was the inaugural flyweight champion in the promotion and still holds the record for the most consecutive flyweight wins in the UFC, with 13.
Johnson also held the record for the most UFC title defenses until Jones surpassed him with his 2024 victory over Stipe Miocic. However, as is the case with many combat sports, the heavyweight division is often the draw.
While the divisions that Johnson brought prestige to — bantamweight and flyweight — are exciting in their own right, it is the titanic bouts between hulking heavyweights that sell tickets and command main event status.
Johnson will always command a corner of UFC history with his impressive eight-year tenure. But as Rogan so brutally highlighted, Johnson’s size when compared to the towering Jones is one of the decisive factors in the GOAT debate.
